How mobile data can fix the digital divide | IoT Insider Podcast Episode 19

Dan Cunliffe
Hi, everybody, and thanks so much for tuning in to the IoT Insider. My name is Dan Cunliffe, Managing Director of Pangea. Today, I’m thrilled to be joined by a very well known person in the industry, Mark Riddell, who is head of Indirect Channel at Abzorb. Mark, very welcome to you.

Mark Riddell
Nice welcome to both yourself, Dan. Always a pleasure never a chore when I’m in your company, that’s for sure.

Dan Cunliffe
And that’s why we love him people. Very welcome in the studio. And today, we’re going to talk a little bit about the digital divide, and particularly what mobile data’s role is in connecting the UK. I thought maybe we’ll give Mark just a chance to give a little bit of background. Many people know you Mark obviously, from your time at Abzorb and before but just give a bit of background to what you’re looking after at the moment and your side.

Mark Riddell
So I’ve been with Abzorb 11 years now predominately, just to help build up the channel. As you see from the grey hair, I’ve been in the channel, basically, probably from the days of dial up, which you probably can’t even remember that Dan?

Dan Cunliffe
Makes a funny noise right?

Mark Riddell
So now, you know from obviously, what started off with 23 partners, I think we’ve now got 193 active wholesale billing partners. So everything that you know, the partners are doing, it’s all white label, it’s on their contract and their bill. And I think the key aspect is we started off I think probably would be fair to say mobile centric company with I think, right to believe we’re the only service provider in the UK now, that actually is able to deliver all three major networks on a white label wholesale basis with full portal functionality. And in effect, what it’s doing is actually just given those partners the ability to operate as a virtual service provider rather than as a wholesale reseller. And yeah really got the whole gambit now, in terms of data networks, DSL, which obviously will be topical in terms of what we’re covering, and recently launched a hosted and, and sit platform. So really all the tools in the toolkit there to help support the channel in the UK.

Dan Cunliffe
Yeah awesome, and obviously just trying to give more and more value, right. That’s that’s the plan and obviously through your guy’s incredible portal, as well. No, thanks for that. And, yeah, I think what we want to talk about, you know, digital divide is a very broad term. But I think the issue for sort of many people in the UK, but also around the world, not getting to, I suppose, experience some of the strong digital technologies, which I guess here in the UK, where we’re kind of used to it, particularly when it comes to the business side of things, you know, we’re able to kind of get a lot of our customers, you spoke nearly 200 partners in the indirect channel alone. I think we’ll maybe just begin a little bit around, I suppose we have to talk a bit about COVID. Hopefully, all coming to the end of it, and particularly what the pandemic has kind of brought out around digital divide. Have your partners, sort of embraced mobile broadband more because of the pandemic, or kind of have you seen trends?

Mark Riddell
I think there’s probably been three identifiable sort of timelines that that’s happened because prior to the pandemic, and probably for about a year, we’d actually acquired a couple of global partners. And the the biggest amount of mobile broadband traffic that was actually coming through those partners into the channel was all around service in business travellers and students coming into Europe and the UK and providing them with that, with that access and functionality. You can imagine it was a bit of a blow, when obviously, the pandemic took effect, and that actually came to a halt. But then what we were seeing was basically short term contracts, basically for providing internet access for people working remotely from home. Which again was a necessity that was, you know, that was forced on businesses and the solution was there because no one was well, the fact is, is that Openreach weren’t going to be able to run around in vans basically doing installs on DSL lines. So they needed something, you know, a SIM that could just be banged out, you know, basically in the post or whatever it might be, and basically they were good to go. And now we’re coming out the other side. And I think we’re now seeing the benefit of I suppose that forced requirement to adopt mobile broadband by a lot of business who hadn’t probably really occurred to them before because they were quite happy with that fixed line connectivity. Is now people more and more adopting it and looking at and I think to be fair, from the reseller point of view, now looking at other avenues and opportunities that they probably hadn’t looked at before in terms of obviously selling those mobile broadband services.

Dan Cunliffe
Yeah I know you hit the nail on the head there where it comes to, I think from sort of getting the resellers to kind of adopt something usually it’s, you know, some kind of compelling event or it’s a promotion or something to get the guys into it, but there’s nothing more compelling than the fact that you all have to work at home, you’re trying to work and your kids are watching Netflix, and who do you want to make more happy? Your kids? Or, you know, like being able to get online? It’s probably good get your kids happy first. You know, and so the ability to now have your own, you know, dare I say, slightly more dedicated service, which mobile broadband affords you, not only at home, but yeah, you know, kind of kind of allows that your kids can just cane it on the, on the streaming services, and you can actually get your stuff done. But that’s, you know, kind of a more, I guess, a slightly more affluent side, when you consider it. The other side is that you’ve got a lot of people in the digital divide, who don’t actually have adequate broadband, either, because, you know, unfortunately, not having the same luxuries or the same kind of, you know, wealth or just maybe about where they’re situated, you know, they’ve not been able to have the service. We obviously, worked on a particular deal where we’ve connected loads of people, in particularly through the pandemic around children had to learn from home, being able to give them services that can be content filtered, and particularly allow them to connect to any network from a single SIM card. You know, from that perspective, I think there is a lot of opportunity to continue that, where we maybe do get our resellers and our partners to focus on those markets a bit more, you know, it can be public sector, it can be vulnerable scenarios. But equally it can just be that sort of rural sector where I think mobile broadband will be just as strong.

Mark Riddell
Geographic yeah. And I think being in that space is interesting, because I think from a consumer driven point of view, I think we have seen, that has been led, for the network’s point of view, when you look at unlimited data, I think it has been the cases that they’ve accommodated that and they have done it from a commercial point of view, very, very well. I think what we now need to start seeing it, it’s probably not as competitive basically, in the b2b space for the equivalent sort of tariffs. But I think, again, there’s possibly a tight change on the back of what we’ve seen, with more and more businesses adopt and remote working in the likes, and so forth, that we can actually see more of that happening, but also remotely. Again, as you said, people aren’t necessarily living basically in central cities or whatever, if they’re basically having a commute or they live out with, then they’ve still got to be able to have that access to, basically connectivity. And mobile broadband delivers that for them, that’s for sure.

Dan Cunliffe
100%. Let’s talk a little bit about some of the other areas where I think mobile data, mobile broadband is becoming more and more useful. I think, from a Pangea perspective, we tend to layer on, I suppose the little bit more complexity through IPs, static IPs, the ability to add on wide area network scenarios on mobile, which is where I think you know, kind of the more b2b market really, obviously wants those things. But I think when you start to play that against today’s market, where guys have had PSTN services as their backup for, straight after dial up, right, basically, you’d have an Ethernet service and then you’d have your backup broadband that’d be running along ever, so swimmingly, the challenge is though, that your PSTN or your broadband service is generally running on the same brickwork as your other fixed service. You know, we’ve been seeing loads and loads of opportunity in that space where you can actually get rid of, or, you know, go along with this turn off of PSTN in 2025. And start to replace everything with mobile broadband, or even better, kind of sort of your static IP solution on mobile. Do you maybe want to chat a little bit with me on that?

Mark Riddell
Basically, being one of the founder, founding fathers of Instanet, Mr. Cunliffe. And basically, you know, that was that adoption of using a mobile broadband as an instant connectivity solution, rather than having to wait for a DSL line to basically go in. And to be fair, you are not, you know, I’ve heard in some cases, they’ll say that the actual 4G, you know, the 4G delivery was actually performing better than what actually the fixed physical connection was delivering as well. So from that point of view, I think that there were a lot of I think, in the reseller arena, certainly, as far as fixed connectivity was concerned. I think that was that was adopted, and there was opportunities to be seen there on the back of Ethernet. But I think you’re right, I think as we see now, the ISDN switch off, and effectively, what is the, let’s say the, finally the adoption of IP voice, which obviously, connectivity is absolutely crucial and critical there. I think that’s where and certainly obviously, the routers from a technical point of view, the routers are now have actually been manufactured for quite a few years now to accommodate a 4G SIM to actually go in there, is that I think it just all becomes part and parcel of the same solution and I think that will accelerate. And what’s happened again, over the last 12 months, I think will only accelerate that adoption, of IP voice, but also mobile broadband backup. And in some cases, obviously, as it evolves, and we move into 5G will actually, will be the mainstay in terms of what that connectivity is going to be.

Dan Cunliffe
Well, I was gonna touch on, you know, we both love a good festival and a good, a good dance. But what’s gonna, what do you think is going to draw, obviously, we’ve got the likes of retail and hospitality, who’ve got a bit of a big mountain to climb, I think coming out the end of the pandemic. How you know, the solutions, that we provide the ability to connect, and maybe bring your retail environment or your retail capability to people at a festival, maybe even like, you know, I was thinking the other day, about sort of some of your retail, some of your high street vendors actually moving pop up stores closer to where people are going to be. So you can start to do a bit more test and learn, I think that’s a great opportunity for a lot of our partners, when they can speak to retail and help them to have confidence in saying, look, you should go with the people are, the people don’t always have to come to you, and run this hybrid model, while you’re trying to grow your revenues again.

Mark Riddell
It’s interesting, some of the ones that are popping up and we’ve, you know, we’re just on the verge of opening up an opportunity. And that’s based around camper vans, caravans, basically people that are actually on the road and going back to the kids, when you’re trying to satisfy and keep a bunch of children happy when you’re out in the middle of a, you know, a caravan park or down on the coast somewhere. But the market for that, you know, the market for that alone is absolutely massive in terms of these sorts of specific opportunities where people hadn’t considered or probably looked at in the past, I think it is really where the partners can now actually just put a thinking cap on and the opportunities are out there for them. And they don’t need to be, as with all of these things, it doesn’t need to be a BMW or maybe a Mercedes dealership to basically go and get them. I think there’s plenty of applications and a requirement for mobile broadband to be exploited by the partners in the marketplace.

Dan Cunliffe
No 100%, we were talking about the growth of endpoints around the world, and particularly the growth of mobile endpoints. And I think there was, you know, I kind of don’t always buy into all of these stats, because they change every, you know, every three or four months. But, you know, I think it’s fair to say there’s lots, right, there’s more and more and more things being connected. When I started Pangea with Chris, you know, late 2014/2015, we were really looking at like, how do you keep telling the story of connecting anything possible out there? And now today, it’s actually different. It’s like, now it’s about, well, yeah, I can connect everything. And I guess it’s just, why do I want to connect it? Is probably a little bit more of the question, like, what am I getting from that thing that I’m connecting, and that’s where IoT starts to really drive its value. You know, I’m kind of keen to get your thoughts on; what do partners need to embrace or get over to really buy into that, you know, of connecting anything?

Mark Riddell
It’s an area that I’m conscious of that there are parts that there are certain segments of the UK channel have adopted it, and are doing very, very well. But I have not put my hand up at this point in time. It’s certainly not as a business. It isn’t something that we’ve taken on directly. However, it’s basically it is definitely on the horizon on the development plan for us to take out. But you know, I think back Dan, if you think, you know, we’ve gone off and basically shared some time together at Mobile World Congress over the last four or five years, and I can now go back five, I think it’s probably what four years at least, maybe five, that that whole message about, you know, the the world was going to be run on a data SIM and 5G was being spoken about five years ago. I have to put my hand up and say I was probably one of those cynics and sceptics actually just wondering, because there’s still parts of Scotland that haven’t even got 3G, nevermind, start talking about 5G. But you’re right, because it’s possibly one of those that I don’t think, the partners have actually fully exploited the opportunities that existed in 4G before we even moved on to 5G. But it just opens a whole new world. But I think that’s probably, you know, certainly from the area that you play in where, you’re operating between that 4G and 5G, you’re probably certainly a lot more conversant with me in terms of obviously the opportunities that actually exist in there for the Internet of Things.

Dan Cunliffe
Yeah, for me, it’s, for me, it’s a lot about I think we do our best work when we when we sit down with a partner, we said can we actually look at your top 20 clients if you’re willing to share it, obviously. And then we go and sit down and we scope out where and how and who we think is the best way to do it. And that seems to kind of open up the doors and the minds to thinking about it. We’ve always been very strong, as you mentioned Instanet but you know, the ability to offer that sort of connectivity while you wait for Ethernet or that ability to wait to have a backup. We’ve be very strong there because, well, I mean, you know, clients of ours have been resellers, in terms of telecoms resellers, so you go where they feel strong. But I think now we’re starting to, and probably for the last 18 months is do more around the fact that; well hey, you know, actually, Why would you not connect a tablet, with content filtering? Why would you not connect a tablet, with a multi-network SIM? Maybe, you know, why would you not do a tablet on shared data? I know, these things might sound simple to some people who have adopted it, but a lot of guys haven’t? Well, you say to them, hey, I mean, you can actually get the same commercial structure on a multi-network SIM that you could sometimes on a single network, if you create the right structure for it, right? What that creates though, is way more than a 24 month term, because why would you move away from a multiple networks offer to us later on down the road, and you kind of help guys get on down that road. But also, it’s about saying, you know, the devices that you want to connect, doesn’t have to be those consumer devices. You know, it’s also about almost like traditional in my mind now, because we’re doing it for a while, but like ePOS devices, or SIMs in, you know, things like defibrillators, or lifts or tracking devices, all these stuff go along. And I think if I can call it kind of early, early thinking 2014/2015 was a lot about, I need, you know, hundreds of thousands of connections to make this work. Today, you don’t. Today, you need 10 or 20 connections to make this pay back for itself. I mean, just two weeks ago we did some services where the ARPU on one SIM was over a grand. Yeah, exactly. That’s like not overage, right. That is a requirement, because of the application needing a very high bandwidth that needed to move around. It had to have static IP, these things are not not difficult to find, actually, in my view, they’re out there. So I think the world of kind of combining the IoT, the mobile broadband, and unlocking opportunities for our partners is going to help them really jump on board when they realise the average revenue per the SIM is just going up and up and up in certain cases.

Mark Riddell
Yeah, yeah, I think that’s actually, you know I’ve been talking to my guys. And that’s more from the point of view of obviously, resellers being partners of ours having a better understanding right from day one, when they engage of understanding that resell is a business and then understanding then how best to serve and support and help them with obviously, the portfolio products or the tools that we’ve actually got. And I think that’s probably what you probably know better yourself Dan. That’s maybe where the focus now needs to be for partners, when they’re then talking to the end user customer, to then better understand, obviously, what their business is, and then from that point of view, if a lot of the resellers don’t even know that that’s a solution that could be delivered to a particular vertical or a business, then from that point, the end user hasn’t got a hope in hell of knowing what’s going on. And I think from that point of view, those partners that do adopt that, and basically can educate that, as with all of these things, it’s is basically just getting out there and just feeling a wee bit uncomfortable and doing something that they’ve never done before. And then once they’ve done it, then you know, then that’s them in the groove. And they’ll be able to take it into the point of view where you’re not necessarily selling it to a specific vertical or type of business. The sort of things that you’re talking there, would they just be taking that as an off the shelf proposition that could be offered to anyone, whether it was for two connections, or 2000 connections as it were.

Dan Cunliffe
Yeah. I think this might be a little controversial, but I think sometimes if it’s not on the high street, then maybe they don’t think about it. If that makes sense, like if I haven’t seen it, not necessarily advertised by the operators. And you know, all of the resellers across fixed and mobile love to win against the operators. Of course they do, because they offer personal service, they offer local capabilities, those kind of things. But I kind of find that sometimes if it’s not available on the high street then it almost feels a little bit like okay, this is different. For example, multi-network or static IP or, you know, a 5MB SIM card versus a 500GB SIM card or 1500GB SIM, there are different models there. So yeah I know, I find that quite interesting. Like when you talk about getting out of comfort zones, that’s probably it sometimes you know?

Mark Riddell
I think they’ve got to be careful, they don’t miss a trick because going back to the 5G thing, and again, I’m still slightly cynical on the basis of have what it delivers to the guys in our channel as it stands today. You know, I remember being at a mobile news award panel debate that was on what, probably three years ago, I think it was in London. And they had all the CTOs of all four major networks were actually up on stage. And at that time, you know, the question, obviously, quite rightly asked was; “So when do you see this being adopted with within our space?” And everyone to the man, you know, said it was probably going to be about five or eight years. One because of obviously the cost of the infrastructure that needed to be rolled out that needed to be completely different. However, what is interesting is that that possibly has been accelerated, driven by the network’s, but in saying that, I’ll come back to my point, I think there is just an absolute wealth of opportunity that has never been fully exploited on the back of what we’ve already got in our hands and have had for a few years now in terms of 4G. From that point of view, I think, you know, I think anyone that adopts that and finds the solutions for that, then I suppose all that 5G does, it just takes it to a different level and opens a whole different type of opportunity, but at least they’re cutting their teeth on it just now, rather than thinking that it all is all going to happen when 5G gets delivered, which I think would be a mistake.

Dan Cunliffe
Yeah, I totally agree. I think saying “You’re going to be I think left out in the cold” is a bit strong. But I think you’re gonna be a little bit behind if you’re waiting for that service to come to you. Because, you know, some of the stats are saying that, you know, only 20% of mobile traffic will be 5G by 2023. You know, that’s still a good year and a half away, right? And if you know, the resellers, as well as you do they don’t have time. We got to keep going.

Mark Riddell
And then again, the same question is that where that alters your service? Because it’d be fair to say Dan, when you saw what was going on across in Barcelona, at Mobile World Congress, you were talking the guys that were at the pinnacle of global corporate business and enterprise, because that’s, that’s always where the technology leverage needs to be delivered, and then it will filter its way down. So never mind waiting until 2023. You know, and when it comes to the space where, you know, a small, medium sized reseller is looking to exploit that, and I think that’s why they need to adopt and basically go hard at basically what mobile broadband could deliver on 4G and the services that we can deliver today.

Dan Cunliffe
Exactly. Yeah, I think we need a whole nother podcast session on 5G to be honest with you, I think there’s a lot more to talk about, we’ve got the good Dr. Arslan and his IoT solutions on 5G, I think he’d keep us busy for a while, but yeah, I think what’s important is that actually, mobile is in a very good place, you know, mobile broadband, mobile data, IoT, it’s in a very good place, because we’re getting more and more of those technologies coming towards us, which is great, and I think that’s what keeps our market so buoyant and strong. I’m going to pull it to a close there if that’s okay with you? I think, you know, thank you very much for your for your insights, and some really, really strong points over there. I don’t know if you have anything last you want to add before we close off or if you’re happy to go?

Mark Riddell
I suppose that if there is a connection, and it’s that final piece, and that’s it’s only from the point of view, something that we exploited on the back of our MVNO that we’ve actually got on the back of the EE network was again, which could be for another day; is fixed to mobile convergence. But from that point of view bringing that data and mobile together. And I think in the advent of what we’ve seen over the last 12 to 18 months, you know, with IP and hosted telephony, I think there’s more interest, I think, in delivering what is a genuine network level fix to mobile product and, you know, just watch this space.

Dan Cunliffe
I think, you know, a fixed mobile convergence, as you say, been spoken about a long time, but a lot of guys haven’t done very well. I’m sure what you guys are talking about is going to be ace. It’s going to be really, really strong. So everybody thanks for listening. You know, if you if you want to hear more, or you have any questions do head over to the website. We’ve got loads of podcasts and blog content; Dr. Arslan Usman, Chris Romeika. Now Mark Riddell can, you know, sit in that echelon of wonderful people who’ve joined me for a chat about anything IoT and connectivity. But yeah, no genuinely if there are any questions please, do get in touch, give us a call, or look at our LinkedIn pages, which all the details will be below after the podcast. So, Mark, thanks so much again for joining me.

Mark Riddell
Thanks for having me Dan.

Dan Cunliffe
Thanks, everyone. Cheers.